KatraN-254

March 18th, 2018, 7:12 pm

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Reply JoKeR, March 18th, 2018, 7:17 pm

Ok took again longer than expected ...but here it is.

A friend of mine mentioned that my Besadonian soldier are the the Katran equivalent to the Storm-trooper from Star Wars... at least the Besadonian know how to aim.

(^___^)

Reply JoKeR, March 26th, 2018, 6:58 pm

Delay of the current update!! _
Sorry Folks I couldn't update till now. Because of some heavy and emotional shit happened this weekend, I wasn't able to finish the page. Tomorrow it will be up.

User's Comments:

Reply Iceburgh69, March 18th, 2018, 10:29 pm

@JoKeR: To be fair, after the crusades, most heavy knights were as well. And so were the Samurai that actually wore their menpo.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 19th, 2018, 12:16 pm

Ohhhh noooo, unforseen circumstances, who could have expected this?

How will our brave fanat-, I mean hero, overcome this?

Completely unrelated question, how do the races of Katran stack up against each other physically?
As in strength, speed, toughness, endurance, etc.?
Just wondering.

Reply JoKeR, March 19th, 2018, 3:26 pm

@Iceburgh69: Well you are right. I did see the design books for the old Star Wars movies and the inspiration was certainly taken from Asian and European medieval times.

@Chains: "How will our brave fanat-, I mean hero, overcome this?"
By the power of ignorance... or something like that.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 21st, 2018, 1:08 pm

@JoKeR: You have to admit, though. Lucas managed to make his StromTroopers look intimidating as all get-out. But yeah, looking at Darth Vader, he's very much patterned after the Samurai.

Reply JoKeR, March 21st, 2018, 1:36 pm

@Iceburgh69: Darth Vader is a mix of samurai and SS gas mask soldiers.
To be more precise ...Lucas used the whole Nazi aesthetics for the Empire designs.

I hope I didn't copied this aesthetics as well, by accident.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 23rd, 2018, 11:47 pm

@JoKeR: Not that I can tell. I'm seeing more tactical knight/samurai/ninja (the pop-culture type rather than the historical type). There's quite a bit here that I could analyze, but I'll restrain myself (unless asked). But overall, the design's workable.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 9:07 am

@Iceburgh69: Feel free to give feedback.
constructive critique is always welcome. (^___-)

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 10:23 am

@JoKeR: In that case I would like to note that the way the bessadonian army carries their swords is... silly, to be polite.

Not only are back-sheaths impractical in general (takes longer to draw your sword from, as well as making the process of doing so anatomically awkward, or downright impossible if the blade is longer than your arm), these ones in particular leave a good bit of the blade uncovered.
Which seems like a stylish design, right up until you accidentally stabbed your fourth comrade, and then yourself.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 10:53 am

@Chains: Good point.
I thought about a mechanism to make the sword better accessible... but I forgot about it and went with the old design.
The mechanism would fold open the scabbard. So that the soldier doesn't have to draw the sword but to just take it. Maybe I implement this mechanism and fix this page.
The sword and the scabbard dangling around on the side of their hips would make them less agile... that was my thoughts about it.

Edit----------------
I suddenly realised that the sword is much too long ...it should be shorter, like gladius.
Darn it.
Ok I'm right into the inking phase of the next page. But I take some time to fix this.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 11:43 am

@JoKeR: A sophisticated mechanism to release the sword seems like unnecessary overengenering, especially in this scope of mass production, and you still have the problem of the unprotected part of the blade (the scabbard isn't just meant to protect the environment from the sword, but also the sword from the environment).

Also, these soldiers are wearing armor and carrying what looks like TOWER SHIELDS on a earlier page.
A scabbard isn't going to affect their aggility in any noticable way, especially if they fight in a coordinated formation.

There is a reason why throughout history, in all cultures, swords where carried at the hip in the vast majority of cases.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 11:50 am

I would also like to state here that these criticisms are mainly motivated by my passion for martial arts and historical weaponry, and in no way reflect on my opinion on your design choices, which are generally awesome.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 12:01 pm

@Chains: Tower shields... awesome name. Didn't know this.
My inspiration where riot shields like this http://tamiamiarmor.com/catalog/images/products/Riot_Shield_1_Front_400x600.jpg mixed with the Roman shields the legionaries used (that's why the soldiers have gladius like swords ;)

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 12:08 pm

@Chains: I once got told by a swordsmith that my designs for the Katranian swords are totally bogus... I'm eager to prove otherwise. But I'm not a swordsmith and don't know someone who could do it for an affordable amount of money... lol

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 3:27 pm

@JoKeR: Well as someone who handles rather realistic training weapons on a regular basis, and has done a fair bit of research into the mechanics of swords and swordplay, I have to tell you...

They're mostly bogus.

The ballance would be more akin to a club with some of the designs, the sword we see Tobrn wield is fantasy-tastic to a point where stabillity and effectivness are compromised, and Sogre should realy use a shield with that unwieldy chopper of his.

Why is Sogres sword called "Armor Breaker" anyway, armor is broken with maces and warhammers, not cutting weapons.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Though, it's mostly the traditional problem of illustrators not understanding the strength and weight of steel, which causes their weapon designs to be WAY to thick.

Seriously, a sword has an average thickness of a 4-6 millimeters, not centimeters.

Also your designs have a tendency to be to short and wide to be realy practical.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 24th, 2018, 4:27 pm

I'll stop this now, before I devolve into general rambling about fictional swords being shitty.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Sogres sword is called "Armour Breaker" because of its shape. The thick part is meant to go through an armour. Also he has a angular shaped hilt because he uses his gauntlets, to get a better grip. Without those gauntlets is this sword very difficult to handle.
Katranian swords are meant to be used for swinging cuts not so much for stabbing.
I explained it somewhere on the earlier pages in the comments. Base for that sword design was a bearded hand-axe https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jLAAAMXQLbVRaa76/s-l400.jpg take the blade and turn it upside down and make the blade longer.
Of course there is also fantasy metal involved to make it more resilient (^__-)

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 4:33 pm

@Chains: fictional swords are fictional. They have to be plausible in its world.

As long as it doesn't bother you too much and let you enjoy the story, I'm happy.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 4:39 pm

@JoKeR: The best way to look at practical designs is to look at historical swords, most of which were worn on the side with two-handed weapons carried like a rifle with the quillions cradled like a baby.

The armor looks to be designed to work against infantry, since the head, shoulders, and upper torso have the plates. If that's the case, the eye-slit's MUCH too large, but does grant better visibility compared to similar helmet designs. The primary material being cloth looks to allow better mobility. I think a better design for anti-infantry would be a chain shirt with the same plates, and narrow the eye-slit. But as I said before, the idea behind the design works fairly well. I can see a practical use for it. Also, if you ever do a closeup of chain armor, go with riveted instead of butted mail. I can tear apart butted mail with my bare hands, but riveted mail can't be torn apart like that since the ends are riveted together.

And to add to what Chains is saying, start with a historical design and keep it structurally sound. For example, a khopesh would make for a great fantasy sword due to its shape, and was actually used. I mentioned that earlier. Most swords come in between a kilo and a half (the Ulfbehrt) to three kilos (Claymore). The Buster Sword would be best used by planting it tip-first into the ground and fought around, since it's too heavy and unwieldy to use in combat without throwing yourself around (Newton's third law) or tearing your arms out of your sockets (if you were to plant yourself in such a way that you can resist the inertia). Watch the end of some of Michael Cthulhu's videos and you'll see what I mean there. As far as an armor breaker, again Chains is right. Axes, maces, clubs, hammers, all worked really well to break armor because they have the mass in the right place to not care about the armor. Swords, with the mass near the hand, don't have the inertia to sunder armor without rolling the edge or chipping.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 4:49 pm

@JoKeR: As far as resilient material, keep in mind the armor's going to be made with the same material, and such you have the same problem as steel against steel, aluminum against aluminum, bronze against bronze. Sword blades lack the mass to cut through itself. You end up doing more damage to the sword. That's why swords were a backup weapon on the battlefield. Polearms were developed and used to great effect, and the aforementioned armor-breakers.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 4:59 pm

@Iceburgh69: (^___^) I didn't thought that I would invoke a historical weapon lesson, when I asked for feedback. But that's all great info. I'll keep them in mind for later designs.

And I hope, keeping the Katranian sword design as is, isn't bothering you as well.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 5:58 pm

@JoKeR: The Monrch is fine, as there are historical axes that look similar. The Twarch is problematic, as you eliminate the effectiveness of a thrust. Even a khopesh can be used to thrust, as can a dane axe. While somewhat lightweight, the split blade doesn't really serve a practical purpose. A wider blade in line with the handle would be better overall. The Lar is a spear, which have been used for as long as humans have been around, and as such works VERY well. The only thing that the armor crusher has going for it really is that it looks like what you'd expect from a cross between a khopesh and a scimitar. Overall, not a bad design, but a misleading name. One of the good things about it is the fact that the tip is in line with the handle, so if you DO go for a thrust, it'll be effective.

One thing of note, the gambeson IS a surprisingly effective form of armor. Try taking an axe to a phone book, and you'll see why.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 6:01 pm

@JoKeR: I'd also suggest a couple of YouTube channels, Skallagrim ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3WIohkLkH4GFoMrrWVZZFA ) and Shadiversity ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmMACUKpQeIxN9D9ARli1Q ). Metatron ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIjGKyrdT4Gja0VLO40RlOw ) is also a good resource. And here is MichaelCthulhu's channel ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGca03sbLq7OUnXMdvRHyBQ ) that I mentioned earlier.

Reply JoKeR, March 24th, 2018, 7:54 pm

@Iceburgh69: Ah I know Skallagrim and Metatron They are very good and entertaining.

Edit------------
Hahaha the Warhammer designers had a similar idea http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khopesh looks nearly like my Monrch design.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 8:14 pm

@JoKeR: They did indeed. The khopesh has a lot of wiggle room, which makes it great for creating fantasy swords. The falchion, the scimitar, and a few others as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falchion and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar and then there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katar_(dagger) also work well for basing fantasy designs on.

Reply Iceburgh69, March 24th, 2018, 8:20 pm

@JoKeR: And as Skallagrim points out, avoid unnecessary spikes and protrusions. All that does is create weak points and make it more likely for the weapon to catch on something. The two that you drew for the end of Chapter 2 have that going for them. There's only 1 area that I'd call a weak point on either of them, and that's where the handle joins the blade on the Twarch.

Reply Chains (Guest), March 27th, 2018, 12:35 pm

@JoKeR: Several naps and one sobering up later I would like to apologise for the unnecessary ammounts of snark and pointless hostility. That was uncalled for.

I still have opinions on some of your designs, but the discussion is over, and somewhat pointless anyway.

Reply JoKeR, March 27th, 2018, 3:51 pm

@Chains: No big deal ...I somehow called for it. (^__-)

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